Learned Hand, one of the greatest justices of the US, who never made it to the Supreme Court once wrote of liberty- "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it. While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it."
It seems that according to your definition, the United States is no longer a democracy, since the majority of the national leadership has abandoned the norms that make it a democracy. I can’t say you are wrong.
And clearly, a Constitution does not guarantee a democracy, because the Constitution can be ignored. But having specific principles enshrined in a Constitution does make it much easier to see when those principles are ignored, and much easier to unite the nation behind those principles when they are clearly stated.
America is a representative democracy, aka a republic, with a Bill of Rights. We are such a country and have never stopped being such a country. The brilliance of the founding fathers is that we do have 3 branches of government and when1 or 2 overreach the 3rd can slam them down which is what has been happening. Simply because you don't like some judicial rulings doesn't mean the system doesn't work. What you may not like is that your perception is not what is being upheld. It doesn't mean we are not longer following the Constitution or are no longer a Jeffersonian democracy.
The Supreme Court said that Trump has immunity for anything even tangentially related to carrying out his duties, and that anything he did as President can't be used as evidence for crimes he commits outside his duties.
His lawyers said that Trump can command the military to kill his political enemies, and he will have immunity. The Supreme Court did not make it explicit that this was wrong.
Are you OK with that?
There is much more where the Supreme Court has failed to support democracy. It is not "slamming down" the other branches.
Trump is unambiguously, loudly, unashamedly not following the Constitution. Over 30% of Americans fully support him, even now.
Trumps lawyers can say anything it does not mean it is the right interpretation. And by the way, if Trump as president would have that right then every president would including democrats. Does that bother you or does it only bother you if applied to Trump?
I actually pay attention and read the supreme court cases- do you?
I find the discussion of rewriting the constitution, getting rid of the electoral college, the senate, the president, and SCOTUS, the pentagon etc which is the platform of the DSA-Democrats , and on the other hand the call for court packing by mainstream democrats with a call to get rid of the electoral college because the Democrats are not getting their way more of a threat to our democracy. What about you?
I find the threat to our democracy is voting for the DSA intifada Jew-hating bottom feeders. What about you?
I am opposed to Presidents being immune from prosecution, in a way that no other citizen in the country is immune.
Yes, I read the Supreme Court cases.
How many Democratic elected officials, or Democratic members of former administrations, are publicly on record for what you are talking about? Names? Sources?
Is that number more than 10?
Are any of those things actually being implemented? I think you are aware that the answer is no.
But on the Republican side, voter suppression, ignoring legal court orders and subpoenas, violating due process, gross corruption, suppression of the media and more are ongoing and if not vocally supported, tacitly accepted by hundreds if not thousands of elected Republicans and administration members.
And what exactly is wrong with "rewriting" the Constitution? You know, of course, that the Constitution contains a method for doing that?
You might also do yourself a favor, instead of listening to Media matters on the topic of Trump’s immunity from Supreme Court, listen to some actual lawyers
Wow, this essay by Daniel Clarke-Serret about what makes a Democratic nation was just what I needed this morning. A terrific piece of work. You should read it.
Learned Hand, one of the greatest justices of the US, who never made it to the Supreme Court once wrote of liberty- "Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; when it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it; no constitution, no law, no court can even do much to help it. While it lies there, it needs no constitution, no law, no court to save it."
Thanks. I'll put that quote at the top.
It seems that according to your definition, the United States is no longer a democracy, since the majority of the national leadership has abandoned the norms that make it a democracy. I can’t say you are wrong.
And clearly, a Constitution does not guarantee a democracy, because the Constitution can be ignored. But having specific principles enshrined in a Constitution does make it much easier to see when those principles are ignored, and much easier to unite the nation behind those principles when they are clearly stated.
But I presume that democracy is still in the hearts of most American people.
Maybe most. We will see in November.
America is quite a vibrant democracy. If you want to see a country that is no longer a real democracy check out the UK.
America is a representative democracy, aka a republic, with a Bill of Rights. We are such a country and have never stopped being such a country. The brilliance of the founding fathers is that we do have 3 branches of government and when1 or 2 overreach the 3rd can slam them down which is what has been happening. Simply because you don't like some judicial rulings doesn't mean the system doesn't work. What you may not like is that your perception is not what is being upheld. It doesn't mean we are not longer following the Constitution or are no longer a Jeffersonian democracy.
The Supreme Court said that Trump has immunity for anything even tangentially related to carrying out his duties, and that anything he did as President can't be used as evidence for crimes he commits outside his duties.
His lawyers said that Trump can command the military to kill his political enemies, and he will have immunity. The Supreme Court did not make it explicit that this was wrong.
Are you OK with that?
There is much more where the Supreme Court has failed to support democracy. It is not "slamming down" the other branches.
Trump is unambiguously, loudly, unashamedly not following the Constitution. Over 30% of Americans fully support him, even now.
Trumps lawyers can say anything it does not mean it is the right interpretation. And by the way, if Trump as president would have that right then every president would including democrats. Does that bother you or does it only bother you if applied to Trump?
I actually pay attention and read the supreme court cases- do you?
I find the discussion of rewriting the constitution, getting rid of the electoral college, the senate, the president, and SCOTUS, the pentagon etc which is the platform of the DSA-Democrats , and on the other hand the call for court packing by mainstream democrats with a call to get rid of the electoral college because the Democrats are not getting their way more of a threat to our democracy. What about you?
I find the threat to our democracy is voting for the DSA intifada Jew-hating bottom feeders. What about you?
I am opposed to Presidents being immune from prosecution, in a way that no other citizen in the country is immune.
Yes, I read the Supreme Court cases.
How many Democratic elected officials, or Democratic members of former administrations, are publicly on record for what you are talking about? Names? Sources?
Is that number more than 10?
Are any of those things actually being implemented? I think you are aware that the answer is no.
But on the Republican side, voter suppression, ignoring legal court orders and subpoenas, violating due process, gross corruption, suppression of the media and more are ongoing and if not vocally supported, tacitly accepted by hundreds if not thousands of elected Republicans and administration members.
And what exactly is wrong with "rewriting" the Constitution? You know, of course, that the Constitution contains a method for doing that?
You might also do yourself a favor, instead of listening to Media matters on the topic of Trump’s immunity from Supreme Court, listen to some actual lawyers
https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/don-t-overread-the-court-s-immunity-opinion
Wow, this essay by Daniel Clarke-Serret about what makes a Democratic nation was just what I needed this morning. A terrific piece of work. You should read it.
@Neil Turitz